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Post by astlyr on Jul 25, 2016 19:11:27 GMT
Jani, I feel your hurt. Anger doesn't really work well long term for me. It's made me physically sick and I'm done with that, so I've had to find some other ways. The things that I do aren't perfect for everyone, not even a cure all for me, but they are working gradually. I've found it takes time, a lot of time to gain any interest in anything, let alone the things that you might have done with, or for EC. I'm getting there after over 6 months. I realized that I was allowing these soul suckers to rob me of the joy that comes from other people around me, other activities, of my life, my real life. I was busy grieving the life I thought I had, but in reality that was a charade. A charade made up partly by EC and partly by me. My mom was is a good mother. She has her own life, friends, etc and wasn't that interested in grandkids or tending to them in a more traditional family way. She wasn't interested in their activities unless it overlapped with one of her own interests and I swore that I would be a different kind of grandmother. I would actively participate in their lives. Don't get me wrong, I didn't want to be "daycare" for any of them, but I definitely imagined my grandparenting to be more like my own grandparents, who took me on trips, showed me how to garden, go fishing, showered me with wonderful treats from the kitchen, watched movies with me. They did stuff that my parents didn't have time for. I'm not begrudging my parents. They were busy parenting, making a living, and all the other things that come from being a certain age. Long story made short, I was robbed of this by my ED when She decided that I wouldn't be allowed to be part of her life or my grandchildren's lives any longer.
It upset the applecart. It destroyed my "grandma dream", or so I thought. I still have some issues with the fact that my husband gets to see grandkids from His prior relationships, but I do not get to see any of my biological grandkids, yet He was the one that ED#1 has the biggest problem with, or so she says. But I'm working on that and trying to thoroughly enjoy the grandkids who's lives I get to be a part of.
Moral of that story, allow yourself to experience the joy at hand instead of continuing to punish yourself indefinitely for the actions of your EC.
Difficulttime2, you hit the nail on the head. It the "death of a dream". I agree that we mourn it, sometimes it feels as if I'm inconsolable. I truly feel that estrangement feels worse than a death. A death I could mourn, remember the good times and move on eventually. This feels as though it's never ending. I get my feet under me and boom ED 1&2 do something to pull the rug out again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2016 21:43:39 GMT
please delete
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jani
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Post by jani on Jul 25, 2016 22:51:36 GMT
Thanks for all the support! Some days I get in such a downward spiral I can't see daylight, but just knowing I am not alone in this nightmare keeps me going.
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Post by rayven on Oct 17, 2016 23:00:44 GMT
We are always the bad guy no matter what. This is one thing that has always been difficult for me to deal with. Sure, I wasn't perfect but who is? I had spent so, oh so very many years beating myself up that I have missed out on some good times.. I mean feeling good. It unfortunately has affect my loved ones because of dealing with me and my guilt and sadness and shame. It is like you just cannot put it away. It is hell. That is the easiest way to put it. You know I've often though, "Wow, even most prisoners eventually get set free." This seems like there is never any freedom. All you can do is come to that point, however long it takes, to try and free yourself. Somehow. I found this last year and it has always given me a little comfort to read someone say that we are in fact grieving human beings living with continuous heartache. Too bad that in general the feelings and despair of the parent never ever ever counts for anything. parentalalienationsupport.com/2011/11/20/letting-go-when-alienated-parents-give-up/"Clearly, alienated parents (also known as rejected parents) are grieving parents. In 2002 Dr. Richard Gardner wrote, “For some alienated parents the continuous heartache is similar to living death." Truth!
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Post by nightsky on Nov 10, 2016 19:15:31 GMT
White hot anger is what did it for me. My DH (dear husband) and I also went through many years of the push-pull of our ES which made life pretty miserable for us and our younger children. ES was great at the serial estranging/guilt thing. I quickly tired of it but DH hung in and every time ES showed a glimmer of acting responsible it strengthened DH's resolve to hang in longer. But each and every time DH would be disappointed and I would just end up angrier. And yes it did affect our marriage and our younger children. After almost 20 years of push-pull and the marriage of our middle child quickly followed by the announcement a few months later by the happy couple that they were to become parents just seemed to send ES into a spin and he amped up his bad behaviors and attitudes. Several years ago, ES finally overstepped big time with a cowardly email to his father full of lies about me, about his childhood, ending with unreasonable demands - which many of the PWWA long-timers from the DS days have heard about. DH was flat-out pissed & I was beyond furious. I told DH in no certain terms that I was done with ES and as far as I was concerned - ES was no longer allowed in our house or anywhere near my life. Then a few months later our cowardly ES really put the icing on the cake by telling his father via text that DH needed to divorce me! DH was beyond furious and immediately changed our phone numbers and email addresses. I plastered a fake smile on my face and continued on with living - it was hard at first but eventually that smile became real. Here we are years later - living without our eldest son in our lives and we lost all contact the grandchildren he had sired. But considering the poison he had already started planting in their young minds we know that even though it is not the best outcome for them, it is probably the best outcome for us and our younger children and grandchildren. Our youngest completely wrote ES out of her life before the final upset and the middle did so shortly afterwards. We also lost some "friends" who bought into the lies ES told them and/or could not fathom a parent walking away placing all the blame on us for being "uncaring" and/ or "unreasonable". Our ES has missed out on a lot - his sister's wedding watching his nieces and nephews grow up. We survived, our marriage survived, our lives are happy, and we dearly cherish our loving family and the good friends who stood with us through it all. And if we can survive the hell we went through - you can too. (((Hugs))) - Anne
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Post by sovgrateful on Nov 20, 2016 10:53:53 GMT
I am certainly not ashamed..I had a form of PTSD I think for a long time, reading PWWA for months before posting etc. etc. Thanks to Top and friends, I found a reasoning to it all.. Now I can finally say I am "okay" with it. It's been many years now..since 2007. Last year I finally turned the corner after my mother's probate was settled. I saw once again the mercenary side of our piece of work..it was enlightening, I had sort of forgotten. I am now indifferent.. I have my little bouts now and again of rage (lol) but for the most part I am over the hump. I have another estrangement in act, all this summer with a friend, I have known for over 30 years. I am navigating that quite well considering..the friendship had to end..it was hanging on by a thin thread for a long time. I do know, after the main estrangement from family, I am far more equipt now.. thanks to Top and you all.. I believe the world and those who inhabit it, are becoming ever more mysterious..all we can do is go with our innermost gut feeling..when things have to end..we know it.. I had been in denial for years with family..but when it came to the final scene with a draining friendship, I knew it. In other words the primary estrangement experience has made me stronger, or less prone to hanging on.. That's a plus.. What doesn't kill us.....
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Post by topiarystepmom on Nov 20, 2016 23:28:03 GMT
I understand So - This spring, I put a 15 year friendship to rest - these people ingratiated themselves to us - made us think they were our "best" friends and then slowly and calculatedly withdrew from the relationship. I would have questioned our role in the demise more if I hadn't noticed that they would replace us with other "best friends", keep them around for a couple of years and then dump them - while always keeping their relationship with us kind of "on the side". A bout of outright lying to our faces, combined with both their increasing indifference and rudeness, along with their withdrawing from us was all I needed to decide to make it stop. Ironically, the female of the couple confronted me (in a public place), saying how much she "missed me" and asking "why don't we talk anymore" (I had finally stopped calling her and she had stopped calling me lol). I asked her what it was she "missed" - and said that the more important question was why we hadn't all gone out together and why they hadn't invited us to their home in over a year. I also said that I really didn't appreciate her lying to my face (they had a party we weren't invited to - outright LIED about it to us and then, when we found out and I mentioned it to her, she lied some more (an outrageous and insulting lie to boot!) Believe it or not, she STILL denied it - swearing up and down that she didn't lie to us - but the evidence (on Facebook btw) betrayed her!
I told her that they they had SO many other friends and that they would be much better off dealing with them and leaving us be. And unbelievably, she asked if we could go for coffee sometime - I said - "we'll see" and silently added "don't hold your breath"!
Fake friends are a waste of time and energy. Dump them and so that you can finally move on and enjoy your life.
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Post by sovgrateful on Nov 21, 2016 0:18:55 GMT
I remember those "friends" of yours Top.. It was time, for sure. I get what you are saying too.. they are sort of clueless about why it happened or pretend to be. We don't buy that game anymore..lol In my case this "friend" of 30 years has moved recently to Boynton Beach about 25 mins from where we live in Boca Raton. She and husband are having a house built in an over 55 community there. Usually pretty grim places..IMO..none of my business.. She came down here this spring ("snooping" as she put it) to look at Boynton B. she has never lived or visited this area before. It was all one big secret, still is as to where she is having this house built etc. We have lived here for over 13 years now..I know if I was moving to a location close to where a "friend" has lived for so long I would at least ask them what their opinion was as to location etc...she didn't, quite the opposite, and I took it as gift on a silver platter. I wanted to end this ménage, her every word in an email even, would annoy the bejesus out of me..the friendship if you can call it that had expired a long time ago. So I backed off.. Now she's here living in a rental, waiting for the house to be built. She still writes a community mail, so I know of her comings and goings. Of course she is clueless as to why this has all happened..other "friends" have told me.. It's me, who's the "odd" one.. She knows no one here..the only real reason she is here is because we, my husband and myself, live close by. Okay, but then why does it all has to be kept under wraps..how insane is that..what kind of friend are you anyway? I am a person who likes to call a spade a spade (haven't heard that one in a while lol) If I want to keep a secret, I keep it, I don't say a word..not little silly hints. Most of the time I am pretty straight forward in all. Life is too short. I did give her a chance in June I wrote a personal mail explaining my position, never received an answer..so I cut the cord..and I am so happy I did. I believe since the big estrangement we are more assertive in these situations. I looked at the larger picture..did I really want to meet up with her and new (third) husband, who are so very different to us, politically and otherwise, or should I let it go? I chose the latter..she gave me a gift of being "spared" that's how I see it.. As you say who needs "fake friends?" You too, I am sure feel "let off the hook" now with the phonies you let loose.. I hate subterfuge, playing games etc. etc. Friends have to feel at ease with each other..we have a couple here who I feel I can say anything too and vice versa. They have always been up front with us, they have proved their friendship so many times in so many ways.. If you are to be my friend, sincerity is the number one requirement! lol I feel we have grown a lot, all of us in that dept. Thanks in the large part to PWWA..a toast to us all!!
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